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Can a Narcissist Fall in Love? Yes, but It’s Complicated

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I was once obsessed with the question, “Can a narcissist fall in love?” I couldn’t stop thinking about it. Out of all the questions we have, isn’t that one of the key questions about narcissists that we want to try to answer?

If we could crack this one, it feels like everything else might fall into place. It gets to the very core of everything we endured in the relationship. The relationship. That is, after all, why we were there: love.

The  Ultimate Question Concerning Narcissists is About Love

Sometimes it seemed as if we were experiencing the purest and most true form of love that ever existed across space and across time.

Other times, well… they rained hell upon us, traumatized us, left us for dead, and we know that no one who loves us could possibly ever have been able to inflict that kind of pain.

If we could understand how both of those things could have existed in the same person, maybe we could understand how everything else could have happened.

There’s a kernel inside that question of whether narcissists can love that starts to unlock the doors to almost every other question we have about the relationship: narcissists and rejection, narcissists and pain, narcissists and betrayal, narcissists and closure, narcissists and moving on, narcissists and empathy, narcissists and what it means to be connected to another human.

The universe could make sense and we could stop feeling like we are living in a funhouse where up is down and down is up.


Defining Love in the Alternate Universe of the Narcissist

Why do they say they love us if they sometimes treat us as if they want to destroy us?

How is it that we sometimes feel as if their love for us is soul-shatteringly powerful, like electric fire, but then they deny and reject every genuine attempt at communication and vulnerability?

Why do they treat us as if they can’t live without us one minute and as if we don’t even exist the next?

What is the purpose of going through such elaborate motions of trying to prove they are in love with us only to carry on double lives in secret that jeopardize that bond and negate all that energy spent?

Why do they act as though we are the one true love of their lives and then replicate our relationship with everyone they meet?

If nothing else tells you that they have a disorder, the way they treat love should. Normal people do not shut their love off and on like a light switch. They don’t exploit the bonds they have with others in ways that ensure only their own needs are met.

What is Love?

Let’s start at the beginning.

It feels almost elementary to define love, but if we don’t define what we mean, then we can’t really talk about whether narcissists were actually loving us or not. 

Is love something you feel or is it something you do? Ideally, there should be some evidence of both. We do certain special things for people for whom we feel certain special things.

Focusing on the feelings versus the actions will provide a different emphasis, however. How love feels emphasizes the two people as individuals, separate and distinct from one another, and is happening internally for each. What they do because of love emphasizes the connection between the two people and should demonstrate something external that will be shared between them even when the feeling ebbs and flows. 


How Do Narcissists Experience Love?

Researchers have found that some narcissists are capable of feeling the biological emotions that are associated with love in their brains.  Here are some examples of what the researchers have to say:

“If you thought that your very romantic Narcissistic ex really loved you and wanted to marry you, you are not crazy.  Even though he is now gone, your guy actually meant what he said when he said it to you.  He was in love with you, or at least with his own romantic fantasy of the two of you as the perfect couple.” -Elinor Greenberg

“Narcissism is, in a metaphorical sense, one half of what sociopathy is. Even clinical narcissists are able to feel emotions as strongly as anyone else does, from guilt and sadness to desperate love and passion.” -Martha Stout

“The feeling is quite real to them. If you don’t believe me, just ask one! When narcissists fall hopelessly and deeply in love with codependents, they love even more intensely than a person who is psychologically healthy, i.e., a person who is neither a codependent nor a narcissist. In the rapturous and euphoric beginning stages of the relationship, the narcissist experiences complete and unconditional love, which is what they have been seeking their whole life.” – Ross Rosenberg


The Narcissist Brain “on Love”

Rhonda Freeman (2017), a neuroscientist who studies narcissists and psychopaths, has a theory about what happens when narcissists fall in love that seems to bear out what Rosenberg suggests about the intensity of their infatuation. 

The brains of narcissists are hypersensitive to rewards and they are constantly seeking stimulation. “This suggests to me that their reward system is extremely activated by their new target,” says Freeman. “During this time, many victims of abuse describe lavish gifts, attention, and compliments unlike ever received from past partners. This has become such a common phenomenon that survivors of these relationships have termed this occurrence, love bombing. The neurochemistry of love (e.g., norepinephrine, oxytocin, dopamine, vasopressin, and endogenous opioids) flows in abundance making it an exciting time and a perfect setting for a deep connection.”

But as we’ve already established, love is more than just what we can feel and this helps to explain the contradictions in the narcissist’s behavior.


How Do Narcissists “Do” Love?

My guess is that if I asked you to stop for a minute and think about what love looks like, you would come up with things such as mutual support and pleasure, compassion and sensitivity, commitment, honest exchange of thoughts and feelings, communication, comfort, and assistance– all healthy indicators of a high-quality relationship.

These are all things that demonstrate that a bond has been established. Freeman goes on to explain in her theory that after the idealization stage when all of the dopamine, oxytocin and other neurotransmitters in the brain released during the early infatuation return to baseline, the person who the narcissist has targeted will have formed an attachment and is invested in the relationship.

Normally, this is when the deeper stage of the relationship would take place, but the narcissist never attaches to the relationship. As he or she returns to baseline, he or she may begin to resent the partner and see them as responsible for their boredom. 

I used to tell my ex-boyfriend that the things he did out of love for me could only be as meaningful as the worst thing he ever did to me because he wouldn’t stop doing the bad things too. It was the whole of all of those behaviors that were the sum total of what he kept calling love but never added up to anything that made sense.

So a narcissist has a very superficial version of what love is and there is nothing we can do to keep them from acting this way. 


What Does It Look Like When the Narcissist Loves?

In a universe where these things make up the definition of love, these two statements cannot exist together:

  1. Your partner loves you.
  2. Your partner is capable of intentionally and knowingly causing you pain.

Once we understand how a narcissist views the world and their capacity for love, however, we can understand that these two things are not incompatible in the universe of the narcissist. The two statements can be reworded in this way: 

  1. A narcissist partner can feel love for you.
  2. A narcissist partner is capable of intentionally and knowingly causing you pain.

In a narcissistic relationship, the two can be true only by taking into account what a narcissist means.

Once we stop trying to put their idea of love into our own framework for living life and understand that this is how narcissists perceive love, we can stop waiting for them to answer questions they are never going to be able to answer. They will never be able to answer them in terms that we will understand. Any answer they give will never fit into a framework we would understand. 

As I began to accept this, some of my anxiety started to disappear. I stopped expecting him to ever act in a way that he was incapable of acting.  It didn’t happen overnight, but with time, it sank in. Then came grief and some of the other emotions associated with letting go. I stopped wanting something that was impossible.

It began to open the door to answering so many more questions about narcissists and love, such as what narcissists feel in relationships, why they hurt you if they love you so much, why they move on so quickly and several others.



Narcissists can love you, but it’s not what we think of as love. The way they behave in relationships is not the way relationships work.

Why is it important to consider whether narcissists can love you?  Use it as the “a-ha moment” to start letting things fall into place to end the confusion about why it seems as if they love you, yet they act as if they don’t.  You can stop wondering if their love was “real.” Their definition allows them to do things that you would never do. This video helps to explain more about that. 





A Note on Types of Narcissists

Not all narcissists are the same, and I explored the different types of narcissists and distinguished between them in another article.  It makes a difference when talking about whether they can experience love.

Some narcissists can experience the biological emotion love and some narcissists cannot. 

Drs. Ross Rosenberg, Mark Ettensohn, and Elinor Greenberg, for example, highlight the difference between malignant narcissists and narcissists lower on the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) spectrum. This type of narcissist also has some of the traits of Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD).  They argue that the former type is less capable of feeling love, however other narcissists can experience love.

Sociopaths, psychopaths, and sadistic malignant narcissists–those with more traits on the ASPD spectrum–usually will only play-act at love and cannot love you. Most of what I’m writing about narcissists and love does not refer to them.


Want more? Get more articles like this one delivered straight to your inbox. 




Ettensohn, Mark. (2016). Unmasking Narcissism: A Guide to Understanding the Narcissist in Your Life. Berkeley, CA: Althea Press.
Freeman, R. (2018, September 19). “Neuroscience Behind Idealize, Devalue, and Discard.” Retrieved February 4, 2019, from
Greenberg, Elinor. (May 4, 2017). “Narcissistic Love Patterns: The Romantic.” Psychology Today. Retrieved March 19, 2018:
Rosenberg, Ross. (September 3, 2015). “Narcissists Can Love– But You Should Still Run!” The Good Men Project. Retrieved March 19, 2018:
Rosenberg, Ross. (2013). The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us. Eau Claire, WI: PESI Publishing and Media.
Stout, Martha. (2005). The Sociopath Next Door. New York: Harmony Books.


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Kristen Milstead

Kristen Milstead is a narcissistic abuse survivor who has become a strong advocate for finding your unique voice and using it to help others find theirs.


  1. I think they love you or say that they do in that moment. Narcissists love in moments.
    They feel in moments.
    If they say they love you, in that moment they do but it passes as soon as you’re out the door.

    1. Kristen Milstead

      Yes, that’s a good way of putting it. They love you for what you do for them, but if you aren’t doing it or they perceive you aren’t, they can’t feel that love for you.

  2. I went through every single stage of this. Just coming out of a divorce- he was my lawyer.
    He was almost tooo good to be true. I remember the day I thought to myself, he was my light in the darkness I was in.
    And honestly – I told him every single secret of mine. Also cos he was my lawyer and he had to know.
    Later on when he finally “got me” – left the person he was with (why would I think otherwise when someone says they in an unhappy relationship and needs to get out) I was really clouded.

    He told me all his secrets, or so he said – perhaps for me to feel sorry for him, listen to how his changed and how I completed him. He used terms like- I was his better day.

    Fast forward 7 months of pure hell.
    The up’s and downs. The highs were sooo perfect and the lows were so low.

    I told myself sooo many times I needed to end this but I didn’t since I also felt bad he ended his relationship for me. He said it many times.

    I went on vacation with a friend- within 7 days apparently he met someone new. Treated me like shit. I couldn’t understand what was happening since he told me when we get back his ready to meet my parents and marry me.

    Saldly I returned home, he fetched me from the airport. I could see the coldness in his eyes. I knew there was something not right. He kept saying he couldn’t deal with me any more and it’s over.

    He broke up with me the next day (it was my 31st bday)

    He married the new girl 10 days later. Married!!!

    I was utterly devastated. Worst I felt in my entire existence. I couldn’t eat. I couldn’t sleep. I couldn’t breathe.

    I saw wedding pics. He looked so happy. I couldn’t understand it. He went on the honeymoon we spoke about. Took her to the hotels I wanted to go to.

    30 days later he called me.
    He was so sorry. He made a mistake. He loves me. She’s not what he thought.

    This went on for a year. Literally. She lived with him for one month until she left at the end.

    I saw posts on social media that she posted when they got married- he was her gift from God.

    At the end. He used to call me to be his emotional I don’t know what but always ended it in, I’m in this marriage now so I have to try. I fell for her. I love u both.

    Dec 2017- I was sick of the back and forth.
    I met someone in August 2017 and we were friends. Dating. The relationship was slow (like relationships should be) but I kept comparing as this didn’t feel like my relationship with the devil.

    Anyways – he continued to call me even though he knew I had a bf and he was married. The emphatic part of me took those calls as my feelings were real. I couldn’t block it out only until he would tell me things about her that made me feel so small and Not good enough.
    I told him in dec to leave me alone.

    Then he got divorced- she wanted out. He told me she was crazy. But actually- he is crazy and he had sooo many chances to come back to me and I would’ve taken him back and fought everyone who always told me he was trash and not good for me.

    He called me in Jan 2018- saying his sick and dying and he needs to talk to me- he can’t do it on the phone . I said no.
    He begged and pleaded. – two weeks later on the 22 Jan I went. I lied to my bf and went to see him cos I felt sorry for him.

    Nothing physically happened besides me kissing him. I said no. I’m not that person. I hate cheaters. I don’t want to hurt someone else.

    He asked me if he had a chance and would I leave my bf for him but he can’t promise me anything.
    I said I’d think about it. He said he loved me so much.
    The next day, I get a text from him asking me if I am confused , I say yes I am. I still love him and that’s all I know for now.

    He told me I’m an “operator” and a “cheater” and I must have also did it to him.
    He put me in that situation!!!

    Anyways he told me shit, I have a bf and must leave him alone. After being devalued again. I felt like shit.

    I swore and blocked him.

    A week ago I got a call from a friend. His dating someone new. Already went to meet her parents and his so happy and they just clicked (he tells us all this)

    And he wants to be honest with her- he met me and him and I are cool- and I still want him.

    Such a lie since I didn’t leave my bf or agree to anything and when I blocked him I told him his a narcissist and must stay away from me.

    I called him and swore him. Told him to stop telling lies. He told me- well I forced him to get someone new since I didn’t chose him over my bf and in the 3 weeks I stopped speaking to him he met her (prob another lie since his time lines never make sense)

    Anyways I am done for good. I will never ever let him manipulate me again.
    Only now I’ve become obsessed with learning about narcissism. Sometimes I think it’s taken over my life and how does this monster still get head space of mine even though it’s over ?

    Any thoughts?

    1. Kristen Milstead

      If you think about the story you just typed, that is not normal behavior from your ex-boyfriend and it is perfectly understandable that you come out of it wanting answers. It is also traumatizing and puts you through a variety of emotions. These are not normal relationships. Normal relationships do not cause PTSD. They don’t leave you with all of these questions about whether the person you were with really loved you and they don’t leave you wondering what was real about the relationship you had with the person. Everything you are feeling and doing is very normal. I hope you will never contact him again no matter what he does and tell your friends not to let you know what he is doing. That will keep you from moving forward in recovering from the relationship. Everything he does is from the disordered perspective of trying to bring you into a circle where only his needs matter– you are either “good” if you do everything he says and make him feel good about himself or “bad” if you don’t. They can’t stop because they think the problem is everyone else. The only thing you can do is get off the merry-go-round and don’t let them drag you back into their world again.

      Thank you for sharing again, Sarah. I’m glad you’re here. Stay strong.


    2. Oh my
      I’m so sorry you went through this.
      It really resonates with me because my narcissist ex is exactly this TOXIC and MANIC in his ‘relationship’ acquisition and destruction.

  3. Thank you for your words Kristen. Your blogs really help me get answers for the questions I still have.

    I want to know how could I have been so stupid for 3 years? I left a shitty marriage because I wasn’t happy yet I couldn’t leave this relationship?

    After he married someone else, I went for 6 months of therapy after (while he was calling me whilst married), that did not help me as I think my therapist couldn’t understand what I was going through.

    To everyone else on the outside, it’s simple- leave him- he mentally abuses you.

    The romantic in me was always waiting for the grand gesture of- I love you , losing u is the biggest mistake ever.

    Sadly that will never happen. I know this now. Perhaps we have this “The Notebook” fairytale I’m our heads.

    How do I know that I am not becoming narcissistic? With my current relationship I do not tolerate bad behavior, I have ( normal) arguments but completely shut off and become withdrawn.
    Am I damaged forever? The worst part of it is what I can’t talk about this to anyone since no one understands and my boyfriend would never understand.

    I never want what happened to me to ever happen again. I feel as if this monster is always with me.
    I’m 32 years old- he took a piece of me which I can’t get back. His in my head all the time.

  4. Thank you for your words Kristen. Your blogs really help me get answers for the questions I still have.

    I want to know how could I have been so stupid for 3 years? I left a shitty marriage because I wasn’t happy yet I couldn’t leave this relationship?

    After he married someone else, I went for 6 months of therapy after (while he was calling me whilst married), that did not help me as I think my therapist couldn’t understand what I was going through.

    To everyone else on the outside, it’s simple- leave him- he mentally abuses you.

    The romantic in me was always waiting for the grand gesture of- I love you , losing u is the biggest mistake ever.

    Sadly that will never happen. I know this now. Perhaps we have this “The Notebook” fairytale I’m our heads.

    How do I know that I am not becoming narcissistic? With my current relationship I do not tolerate bad behavior, I have ( normal) arguments but completely shut off and become withdrawn.
    Am I damaged forever? The worst part of it is what I can’t talk about this to anyone since no one understands and my boyfriend would never understand.

    I never want what happened to me to ever happen again. I feel as if this monster is always with me.
    I’m 32 years old- he took a piece of me which I can’t get back. His in my head all the time.

  5. Thank you for your words Kristen. Your blogs really help me get answers for the questions I still have.

    I want to know how could I have been so stupid for 3 years? I left a shitty marriage because I wasn’t happy yet I couldn’t leave this relationship?

    After he married someone else, I went for 6 months of therapy after (while he was calling me whilst married), that did not help me as I think my therapist couldn’t understand what I was going through.

    To everyone else on the outside, it’s simple- leave him- he mentally abuses you.

    The romantic in me was always waiting for the grand gesture of- I love you , losing u is the biggest mistake ever.

    Sadly that will never happen. I know this now. Perhaps we have this “The Notebook” fairytale I’m our heads.

    How do I know that I am not becoming narcissistic? With my current relationship I do not tolerate bad behavior, I have ( normal) arguments but completely shut off and become withdrawn.
    Am I damaged forever? The worst part of it is what I can’t talk about this to anyone since no one understands and my boyfriend would never understand.

    I never want what happened to me to ever happen again. I feel as if this monster is always with me.
    I’m 32 years old- he took a piece of me which I can’t get back. His in my head all the time.

    1. Hello Sarah, you’re not alone about how you feel. I think every woman (or man), who has been in a similar situation with a Narc has felt that way at times, myself included. I was with him almost four years. There were red flags which I chose to ignore or down play rather. But as time went by, I started to see him for who he really was: a pathetic, manipulator, faulty man, a sad man, really. I had always confronted him when there were things I didn’t like but in true narc fashion, he would turn it around on me. So, what did I do? I began to adopt the same tactics he was applying on me towards him. Finally, I discarded him first. I was fed up. Done. No contact from me, nothing. Three months later I got into a new relationship with a wonderful and NORMAL man. This man shows his love not by uttering mere words but with his behavior. You seem to have now a man in your life which appears to be like mine — in direct opposition to the narcs we had previously dealt with.

      Sarah, you’ve asked how do you start to get your ex-narc out of your mind? I would say you do that by reading the wonderful posts Kristen shares with us and you begin to further understand about their faulty personality (that is what I do). I don’t attempt to understand the individual but rather my desire is to understand the actual disorder. I love to learn because in learning we become empowered.

      Also, you need to start opening up your heart fully to the wonderful man who values you for real. This man who is there not to rescue you from the trap set up by your previous narc but to SHARE with you his true heart, mind and spirit. A normal man who is capable of giving you his true feelings.

      Do not feel stupid for having fallen for the narc. Instead feel empowered by it because in living and learning from the experience, as horrible as it was, it was life that had put the narc in your path (as well as mine), in order for us to experience the two sides of the coin, if you will: “LOVE AS EVIL” (the narc), and now “LOVE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE” (your new boyfriend). Just like me, you eventually came on top, triumphant that we were strong enough to put a stop and no longer tolerate the toxicity of such pseudo-relationship. No, I don’t regret my dealings with my ex narc because he taught me a valuable lesson: thanks to him, I’ve come to VALUE the true human and caring man that is in my life now. I had broken up with my ex-narc three months prior and I was in full no contact with him, despite the fact that he was constantly hoovering. Finally two weeks ago I broke no contact just to make absolute peace with my “self” and sail away towards the wonderful life that I am eager to live. I sent my ex-narc an audio message in which I told him that I held no regrets, no rancor, no negative thoughts towards him. I told him that his attempts at insulting me did not affect me (actually they never affected me), because I liked and loved myself. I said that the entire experience with him had been one of growth for me. In fact, I also said this: “What was, it was and is long gone. I am doing very well with my new partner but please know that all the nice things you gave me at the time and even those that weren’t nice, in reality helped me in a very positive way and thus I wish you the best always.”

      Make peace with yourself Sarah and in doing that, you will be making peace with your ex-narc. Life has given you a chance at true, real love. Embrace your new partner and LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST.

      1. Thanks for replying Renee.
        I admire your strong courage.
        And how far you’ve come since then.

        I wish I could say the same for myself but unfortunately I cannot because I am no where further than I was in the start.

        My current bf, he is very clingy. Needy.
        Has the same narcissistic (sometimes) qualities. I can’t talk to this man about anything as he keeps saying I am too hung up on the past and I have issues.

        Sadly these issues will stay with me for a very long time.

        It maybe unfair for me to continue this relationship, I’m not sure.
        Sometimes I think all this reading about narcissism is turning me Into one. My new bf and I bicker all the time. Simple shit that doesn’t require bickering.

        I don’t tolerate shit anymore and I am no longer afraid to be alone.

        I have a thought- we are all looking for light at the end of the tunnel- but we are own own light. I am whole person on my own. I don’t need some guy to complete me (narc or current bf)

      2. Kristen Milstead

        Hi Sarah: Yes, I agree with you. We are whole on our own. I think it just takes time to work through everything. People assume because you have to work out what happened that you are still hung up on your ex, because if a normal relationship breaks up, if you spent this much time thinking about it, that would be what it meant. In this case, we were lied to, abused, our emotions were violated, and our minds had games played with them. We aren’t hung up on our exes– we are trying to heal ourselves. Focusing on ourselves is not living in the past. In fact, without focusing on ourselves we can’t move forward into the future. Focusing on ourselves means taking our reality back, understanding what happened to us, speaking the truth, and letting the pain of the past heal. We don’t need to feel guilty about that.


  6. Hello again Sarah,

    Thank you for your kind reply! How far have I come? I’m back to being the person I had always been but wiser! I’ve learned a very valuable lesson that instead of leaving me angry and resentful it has made me love myself even more through the further realization that I am a good human being, I am not perfect but no one is, I am an accomplished, strong, intelligent woman whose ex narc was envious of because of his own short comings and insecurities. His actions only demonstrated his own shortcomings, evidence of a disorder that is all his, not mine. It just comes a time Sarah when you have to look deeply inside of yourself and come to the realization that you have two options: 1) give in to the “power” of the narc and forever live as a sad shadow of the person you once were, or 2) understand that the power is and has always been WITHIN YOU to get rid of all the negativity that the narc has injected into you in the form of narc venom, because that is what it is. But you see, you are in full possession of the antidote because such is IN YOU. You cannot give him the power to destroy you, particularly when you no longer have any contact with him.

    You are not becoming a narc yourself because here you are, pondering and questioning yourself about it. Narcs would never do that because in their minds such thoughts do not exist. Although they do know deep inside that something within themselves is amiss, they cannot pinpoint what it is. It is a sad existence really.

    Your new boyfriend is needy and clingy you say and you feel he has narc qualities. In that case, maybe it would be best if you were to distance yourself from him right now. If you feel you cannot talk to him, let him know and see how he responds. Then you will be able to assess if he actually has narc traits or not. In any instance, perhaps at this point in time you need to be on your own to truly find yourself and strive to become a better “YOURSELF”, an improved version. If you still feel that this former narc has deeply wounded you, then it is still making it extremely difficult for you to bond to another man because your sense of trust has been broken. You are angry at yourself because you feel you were used and betrayed. Yes, those are valid feelings, but hanging on to them as if you could not escape where does that take you? Does feeling like that take you to a better place? A place of light and warmth or to a dark, damp place filled with despair and negativity?

    You came into this world to fulfill a role in this life in a productive way by being a good, empathetic human being who has the capacity to love others, to bring joy to others, not take away from them. To bring and share your light with others, not to bring darkness to them. Your ex narc and all narcs, came into this world to be and do the opposite. I would be foolish if I were to succumb and allow myself to go down into that damp well of darkness where all narcs ultimately reside. No Sarah, I have one life to live. It is my life, my way of living it and I have full freedom to live it because with the narc out of the picture, ONE IS TRULY FREE !!!

    1. Kristen Milstead

      I love everything you have written here, Renee.

      1. Thank you Kristen! The knowledge, understanding, empathy and solidarity you provide towards all your readers and followers become their guiding light towards a beautiful, narc-free life!!!

      2. Kristen Milstead

        You are welcome, Renee!

    2. Wow Thank you sooo much Renee.
      I love everything you said. You put it so brilliantly.

      I think sometimes we don’t want to be alone and we all have a need to be “wanted”
      But u are absolutely correct when u say that we have to sit back and basically take mental stock of our own lives.

      Your words helped me so much. It’s a lot to sit and ponder upon.

      Thank you once again.

      Hugs to you xx

      1. Thank you dear Sarah, I very much appreciate your kind words! You see, you’re such a kind human being and I can sense you’re a highly intelligent woman. Negative, toxic humans fear those qualities, even when they are intelligent themselves. Do you know why? Because they utilize their intelligence to cause harm, and when we speak of true intelligence we are speaking not only of cognitive intelligence but most importantly, of emotional intelligence which of course, they lack.

        You’re right about the appreciation of my words, that is precisely what I meant. Take a step back, take mental stock of your own life. No one else has that power but you. Kristen well said it, allow yourself to feel every emotion you still have inside. Let it out and eventually you will make peace with it and yourself. You will relish in the ultimate knowledge that the narc very well knows that his attempts to take full possession and control of your life miserably failed. Yes Sarah, your narc FAILED. As well as did mine!! I had never conferred him such privilege, despite what he may have thought in his faulty mind. I never did and neither did you. That’s why there is no grudge from me towards him, because despite the fact that I had feelings for this person, I love myself even more. Sting’s song says “if you love somebody, set them free”. What that phrase says to me is this “IF YOU LOVE SOMEBODY (IN THIS CASE ME), SET THEM FREE (SET YOURSELF FREE!)”.

  7. Dear Renee

    A friend said something to me today that’s gotten to me.

    She said: Sarah you’re my best friend, I talk to you every single day and I look at things from the outside not in the same position that you’re in.

    Your current boyfriend loves you. For you. Truly loves you but u don’t see it, because you don’t want to see it. Anything this man does u already sabotage in your head because you know your ex narc is free (even though has a gf and calling you once again- but free as in not married ) you are sabotaging your real relationship in your head so you can make room for the man you really love – your narc.

    Now, I’m not sure if I am really doing this but my close friends say I am. I don’t know what more to say.

    This narc has had my heart for such a long time and I honestly love him. Whether it’s real or fake for him I can’t tell. But for me it is.

    This doesn’t mean I don’t love my current bf, because I do. Fcuked up- I know.
    But I love them differently. If this is possible.

    But as usual as much as the narc is saying he loves me and wants me back- in the meantime what did he go and do? Find someone else. (5weeks)

    He tried to blame me saying I am with someone else but I met this person last year already while he was married to someone else.

    And what if he didn’t get divorced? Where would that leave me? Will I ever be good enough?

    Is love with these kind of people even worth it?
    I know he will hurt me again. But deeep down inside me, I want him to want me. I want to be with him. Nothing and no one compares.

    My current bf is so flipping sweet. Yes we fight , it’s normal arguments in a relationship but it is never about another person or cheating or anything.

    I never ever thought my life would be so difficult with so many emotions all the time. Do i do it to myself ? Absolutely. Am I wrong ? Absolutely.

    If I take a step back like what you said to do and look at this rationally without my heart in – my life would be better with my current bf.

    How do you get your head to make decisions because deep down I know what’s ultimately better for me but my mind and heart aren’t at the same place.

    The reason I ask if I am turning narcissistic is because of the reasons that I am subconsciously sabotaging my real relationship to make room for the narc.

    Meaning I’m unconsciously gaslighting, blowing up, for no big reason.

    My mind is like playing games with me. Id like to think I am intelligent, I should be intelligent enough to see all this?- I normally would be. I divorced my ex husband over 3 years ago when my daughter was 7 because he treated me like shit and cheated on me. And I saw it and I knew I deserved better.

    So why the hell would I allow the narc to do all this and worse but part of me still loves him and wants him?

    1. Hello Sarah, it is 1:25 am in my part of the world, I’m in bed and the TV is on, playing “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo”. The sound is off, I’m not watching. I’ve just read your latest comment and these are my thoughts. You said: “This narc has had my heart for such a long time and I honestly love him. Whether it’s real or fake for him I can’t tell. But for me it is.” Yes, for you your love is real because you are a person who is capable of FEELING. Narcs are not. Therefore his “love” is a kind of love that is twisted, not unconditional, sadistic (because they derive pleasure from your suffering), etc. Thus, from a normal, feeling person’s perspective this is not love; and in reality it isn’t. What further proof do you want than when you do not do as he wants, he turns around and quickly “commits” to someone else? Surely his actions do not speak of LOVE. True love is supposed to make you feel true to yourself, confident, beautiful inside, valued. True love helps you grow, understands that you are a separate entity and respects that. True love is loyal, understanding, faithful. It does not make you feel insecure. True love does not play head games nor heart games. True love is pure, not tainted. True love is caring and unselfish.

      Now, tell me if this man’s love inspired any of these things in you or it did just the opposite? Of course you feel you love him. Narcs are “cons” and as such, they sell you the ILLUSION OF TRUE LOVE when their love is just the opposite. The problem with that “love” is that it turns the partner into a co-dependent human. Thus, when the narcs act up (and you know their tactics), the co-dependent partners reacts as a junkie needing his/her next fix. When the narc finally comes around and throws the partner a “love” crumb . . . the partner acts ever so grateful for the crumb! Picture this in your head and you will see how twisted and maddening this is.

      You said: “But as usual as much as the narc is saying he loves me and wants me back- in the meantime what did he go and do? Find someone else. (5weeks).” Yes Sarah, he says he loves you because words are just that. Words come easy to the narcs but words are cheap. Actions on the other hand, speak volumes. What was his action? To find new supply within 5 weeks’ time. That does not say “I LOVE YOU” to me; does it say it to you? I know it terribly hurts to ever think that the love you gave to him was not equally reciprocated. But you have to keep reminding yourself that you were NOT dealing with a normal individual. You were dealing and giving your love to someone who was and is damaged. Emotionally and psychologically damaged. Someone with a clinical disorder. Therefore, true love with a narc is always one-sided: yours.

      “He tried to blame me saying I am with someone else but I met this person last year already while he was married to someone else.” Of course he said that. Narcs are notorious for turning things around and blame the other person. This is one of their characteristic traits and modus operandi. By making you feel that you caused him to find/marry someone else, his actions would be justified and you would end up feeling like the guilty party. That is not love Sarah. That is the opposite of love.

      I”s love with these kind of people even worth it?” NOOOO! It is not worth it because being romantically involved with these people only bring unhappiness and loss of self worth and self esteem to their partners. It stunts you as a human being. It ultimately turns you into a “living dead” type of person.

      “I know he will hurt me again” You are correct: he WILL hurt you again and again and again. Hurting is what gives them pleasure. Let me ask you this: Getting repeatedly hurt makes you feel good Sarah? Can you envision living the rest of your life this way? Never knowing when the hurt will come, but knowing full well that IT WILL COME? Because it is never a matter of IF but of WHEN.

      “But deeep down inside me, I want him to want me. I want to be with him. Nothing and no one compares.” Of course you want him to want you because narcs make their victims bond with them to such a level that without him you feel that something is missing. And indeed something is missing! You know what is missing? THEIR ABUSE! Now you might wonder “how can I possibly be missing their abuse?” but you are, because the narc abused you time and time again until the abuse becomes the norm and not the exception. One becomes “addicted” to that abusive behavior. It sounds crazy because IT IS CRAZY! You want to be with him because nothing and no one compares. Your desire to be with him is because you’re focusing on the “idealized” parts of your relationship with him. The good parts. The ones that made you feel “loved and wanted” by him. Those parts are highly addictive, we all know that. Narcs are master manipulators and they know this. “No one compares” you say and I reply: NO AND YES. No, normal human beings do not compare because they are not damaged. Yes, other narcs compare because they are cut from the same narc-mould. Their traits are the same. They are damaged beings not capable of making anyone happy because they have no frame of reference about what happiness can ever mean. They are not happy with themselves. They do not love themselves Sarah, therefore how could they ever love another human being in the manner you want to be loved? They have a very limited range of emotions, and they are not of the positive kind.

      “The reason I ask if I am turning narcissistic is because of the reasons that I am subconsciously sabotaging my real relationship to make room for the narc. Meaning I’m unconsciously gaslighting, blowing up, for no big reason. My mind is like playing games with me.” What is happening to you is that you are repeating the same behaviors that the narc exercised upon you during those three years. You do this subconsciously because in a way, these behaviors make you feel closer to your narc. He sabotaged your relationship time and time again. He gaslighted you time and time again. He would blow up on you time and time again. He played games with you time and time again. He denied you a sense of trust time and time again. He made you feel insecure about yourself and your value time and time again. He made you feel less of a woman by either actually cheating or hinting that he could cheat time and time again. He gave you the silent treatment time and time again. He emotionally abused you time and time again. All of these behaviors utilized by the narc to make you trauma-bonded to him. Trauma bonding is very real and that is why you still feel this way towards him, wanting him and all that.

      Of course it is difficult to reconcile your mind and heart. Both have been abused by your narc. But the question remains, what kind of life would you have if you were to get back with him? Would it not be a miserable life filled with anguish, sadness, anger, despair and constant abuse?

      Where would such a miserable life lead you Sarah? What is it that makes him so incredible as you had stated? Because if you think rationally, a despicable, abusive man doesn’t sound like a great catch to me. Rather the opposite. Was he so great in bed? I don’t mean to pry about intimate things but keep in mind that narcs are notorious for not “making love”, instead they “have sex, they copulate” at the most basic level. Emotions are left out. They do not bond, we do! Sex with them is only for their own satisfaction, not yours. It is always about them, not you. Think back and you will start seeing those signs as well.

      You said you left your husband because he mistreated you and cheated on you. You did the absolute correct thing. You were strong and you did it; but I gather your ex husband was not a narc; as despicable as he turned out to be, he did not have this disorder. Yet, the fact that your marriage turned out to be a traumatic experience for you made you an ideal candidate for the narc with whom you got involved. He was your lawyer and he knew all the details and how devastated you were over this . . . and this narc in perfect narc fashion took advantage of your suffering. That is just how they are wired Sarah. You cannot fix them nor save them. Neither can I. No one can. Not even the best and most experienced therapist. It is sad but it is a reality.

      They will continue to jump from victim to victim to make their lives miserable. To make them suffer day in and day out. To obliterate their sense of self. To reduce them to less than a uni-cellular organism. To turn them into NOTHING AND NO ONE. Keep that in mind as you try to make sense of it all Sarah. You will reconcile your mind and your heart. Give yourself a chance at life and at love. Your boyfriend is sweet you said. You love him you said. It is a different kind of love you said and I believe it is because it is not an abusive kind of “love” and abuse is what you had been receiving at the hands of your ex husband and your narc. At this point in time that is the only kind of “love” you are accustomed so the love of this boyfriend seems foreign to you. Give him the chance to show you love as it is meant to be. Give yourself the chance to feel it. You will notice the difference and I promise you, YOU WILL NEVER GO BACK. Then you will be able to rightfully state ‘NOTHING COMPARES’.

      1. Dear Renee

        It’s 9.53 in my part of the world and I’m at work. Tea break 😀 work keeps us going, thank goodness for that.

        Firstly from the bottom of my heart I would like to thank you for taking the time out of your life to guide and help me through my emotions and what I’m going through.
        I went for therapy for 6 months last year and I swear that these few convos with you, that you understand what I’m saying and feeling- I am more helped now then with a therapist. So a BIG thank you! May God bless you.

        I think you are right about what you said- it’s trauma bonding. I keep / kept trying to get my narc to be how he was in the start 3 years ago. But I know now that that person does not exist no matter how much I want it to be real.

        The funny thing about all this, I’ve said these things to him and it really does nothing to him.
        He says straight – I like women, the new girl was just there. Blah blah.

        I think these individuals don’t understand that there will always be someone who is just there. But when you love someone and truly love and value them- no one compares and you’re not interested.

        I think he suddenly only wants me to when he thinks I’m unavailable and the minute I give him attention or say I’ll meet him- then he says- oh sorry I can’t meet u and be a cheater?
        I think it’s the highs of getting my attention that he thrives on.
        I’ve now blocked him from texting and calling me. He can only call from hidden number now as other calls will be cut.

        As I’ve explained to Kristen, I’m in a bit of a pickle with him about my car. Long story short- he bought it for me 2 years ago when I turned 30. I had a car ( a Mini Cooper) which we sold and settled the bank on the outstanding amount and now the bmw he bought me is in his name. So ultimately I am driving my car (but it’s actually his)

        He uses that as kind of a link or tool that I HAVE to talk to him or answer calls because somehow I owe him.

        He knows I am not in a financial position to give it back and restart right now.

        I think this is why he disappears and reappears from time to time.

        I’ve spoken to my current bf about the car. We are looking into things to get my out of it (I just cannot tell him my narc calls me and al this since I don’t want my past to take over my whole life and these are issues I should be able to cut off on my own- nor do I want my sweet bf to ever think that he isn’t enough – because he really is. )

        I know that I am partly damaged because of what has happened and I just need to move on somehow. I am worth so much more than this. I’m 32 now, can I really be doing this forever ? NO

        Can I let the narc around my 10 year old daughter and expose her to this? Absolutely not. Can I tell u in two years with him – he never asked me to meet her? He would only see me when I had the weekend free or she was in bed.

        My current bf sits and does homework with her and is always at my home with us. We are like a real family. I can see a life with this guy.
        Example: we fought on the weekend (normal fight) hE came to my house the next day to explain things to me. To tel me he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me.

        I need to sort the shit out in my head as I will end up all alone.

        You know what you asked me about the intimacy with the narc- it was so different from my marriage- like intense- addicting. Things I’ve never experienced before.
        He told me that no one would be able to deal with the things I liked but him. But during those moments, I really thought he loved me.

        I believed him as I have only ever been with my ex husband other than him.

        The thing is- I’ve learnt now that this is not the case.

        I will never ever move on if I continue with things like this. Your words and Kristen’s blogs give me hope that we can be happy and we are normal.

        Hugs to you xxxx

  8. Good evening Sarah, hoping that your tea was delicious (you must be in the U.K as folks here in the U.S mostly drink coffee — not I, though). I’m very glad to know my words and Kristen’s are helping you to sort out things and guide you towards freeing yourself of this toxic person.

    You’re right when you said that he doesn’t care because that’s how they are: THEY DON’T CARE. They may pretend to care but that is just what it is, pretend! The fact that he never once asked to meet your daughter is evidence that he is devoid of all true feeling towards another human being. It has nothing to do with you particularly, so don’t take it personally. That is the way he behaves towards all humans, and you know he is doing everything he did to you to his next supplier and the next and the next.

    For example, my ex narc had two children (now grown up in their early 20s). Can you believe he has ZERO contact with them? I asked him about that once and he only said “I keep track of them”. I felt that was so odd! I’ve never met them but I know of them. How can you not have any contact with your children? At first I thought it was because his ex-wife had to do with it but then, as I started to analize him and his behavior, i began to think otherwise. He discarded them just as all narcs do: discard everyone from their lives. In this case, within days of my break up with him for good, he had also discarded his own mother (with whom I have a very good relationship to this day), and his siblings. He had discarded his father long before meeting me (his parents had divorced when he was a kid). He had discarded his nieces and nephews soon after meeting me. However, he did not get to discard me because I took care of it by breaking up with him. He has no friends, except one guy. Since our breakfast, his mother has told me things that made perfect sense to me. Things that made me seriously think and reflect; helping me to put the pieces together in this bizarre puzzle that is his sad existence. So, no! They don’t feel in the true sense of the word. They are incapable of developing deep feelings for anyone. They do not regret, they do not empathize nor do they sympathize with anyone. They are not happy for anyone and they are not sad for anyone. They live inside a shell that is like a self-protective armour, impenetrable and yet, easily threatend.

    Your current boyfriend is doing all of the things that a normal person would do. Key operative word: NORMAL. He enjoys spending time with your daughter and demonstrates this to you because he knows she is so important to you. Since he loves you, he automatically loves your daughter. That is how normal people behave and feel.

    About your car . . . if I were you I would most definitely try to get rid of the car. Give it back to him (if it is in his name, he is responsible for it and you are under no obligation to keep it). Continuing to drive this car will keep you bound to this narc and he knows it. This is not good for you and it surely isn’t positive for your relationship with your new boyfriend. You mentioned that “nor do I want my sweet bf to ever think that he isn’t enough – because he really is. )” but Sarah, that is precisely how he will feel if he knows that you are driving a car which was provided by your ex narc who’s still in the picture because of that car. A BMW is a luxury car and your new boyfriend might end up feeling very inadequate as a man because you are making the decision to continue driving a car the narc was able to provide to you, despite the fact that you’re no longer in a relationship with him. Personally, I’d rather ride in a horse-drawn carriage like an Amish woman but keep my boyfriend from ever feeling less of a man because indirectly, I am exalting the image of the narc as a “successful lawyer” who’s capable of providing a luxury car to me. I know this is not your intention at all, but if you look at it from the viewpoint of your current boyfriend, that is what would go through his head.

    In terms of intimacy, you stated “He told me that no one would be able to deal with the things I liked but him. But during those moments, I really thought he loved me.” Yes, he said what many narcs tell their girlfriends/wives “no one will ever love you like I do”. In fact, I think my own narc said that to me once . . . but because I knew myself and loved myself all too well, I just took those words with a grain of salt.

    “I believed him as I have only ever been with my ex husband other than him.” Of course you thought he loved you and you believed him. Why wouldn’t you? He was expressing such beautiful “feelings” which were giving you a constant high. You would have been non-human if you had not thought that and believed those words. Do not blame yourself for those things. You were a human woman who believed she was being truly “loved” (because you were assigning LOVE the meaning from the perspective of a normal, feeling human), by someone for whom you had feelings. That’s perfectly normal.

    I will tell you what has greatly helped me to move on from my toxic narc: the understanding that what he viewed as “love” was not what I (and all otherwise normal people) view as love. I understood and accepted that within his faulty self, he did “love” me; except that I was smart enought to realize that such “love” on his part was not sustainable because he is incapable of achieving a deep connection and true intimacy because he’s not capable of developing the unconditional feelings that are responsible for bonding and intimacy. Therefore, I was not about to let myself continue living a life of uncertainty and negativity. A life that would take me in a downward spiral to the dark abyss that was his own existence! So, it came the time when I said enough is enough. I would no longer entertain his type of “love” simply because I knew what true love is, and his wasn’t it.

    Bottom line: I hold no grudges towards my ex-narc because I felt he “loved” me in his own bizarre way. I hold no grudges towards him because he did not force me into the relationship, I was a willing participant (of course I did not think it was going to be a toxic one). I do not blame myself for it because I realized that I needed to take it as an experience that was ultimately valuable to me, for I got to see the dark side of a person for whom I had developed feelings and see that within those individuals Jekyll and Hyde truly exists. His verbal abuse, triangulation, gaslighting, silent treatment; all those things made me suffer of course, but they also served the purpose of making me realize that I was wasting such precious time by remaining with this individual who could never “be”. An individual who only “exists” but “isn’t”. I also understood that it was HE who was not worthy of my affection, time, understanding, beauty, intelligence, empathy, solidarity. Yes, as time went by, the more I observed, analized and reacted until I arrived to the final and unequivocal conclusion that I was way out of his league: I was truly human whilst sadly, he was not.

    You are already seeing the light Sarah! Run towards it, embrace it. It is there waiting for you!!!

    Hugs xoxox

    1. Hi Renee

      It’s 00.56am here. I’m actually in South Africa 🙂 bet u didn’t think that huh? 🙂

      I want to ask you something. How did you get involved with your narc? As all the blogs say- these people find something in us (or we at a low point in life etc )

      I find it totally crazy how your ex did not have any relationships with his children. What human does that?

      Did this not leave red flags for you?

      I know I found it weird that my ex had a few friends I. The beginning who he kinda like made himself the “leader” but always paying the bills when we all went out. It seems almost like he had to show them he was better or more successful. Like buying friendship almost. At the end. When he discarded me, they all called me to say sorry and to tell me what happened with the now ex wife.

      Fast forward few months, he found out they were still in contact with me- freaked out. Fought and in the end he lost all of them too.

      Now he has one friend who works for him so like on his payroll and another who is a business partner. That’s it.

      Over time when he contacted me when he was still married (the mistake marriage) lol, he convinced me they were all jealous of us and they pushed him to contact this girl he married. What a joke.

      And he was protecting me from them. Someone should’ve protected him from me!

      Funny story about what happened today- at around 6,15pm, my phone rings with a hidden number- it’s him. I answer.

      He says- hi, did you try and call me earlier today? So reply : nope.
      He says : okay
      Me: ok bye

      And I hang up.

      What do u think this call was all about? Did he really think I was calling him ? Or did he hope it was me or was it a teaser call for me not to forget it?

      Your thoughts ? 😀

      1. It’s almost midnight here Sarah, so you’re in SA! How beautiful! It’s funny because it actually did ocurr to me that you could in in South Africa!!! I thought Australia, New Zealand and South Africa as the other possible places you could be.

        How did I meet my ex-narc. He was a FB friend of a high-school friend of mine who used to draw and paint very well. One day, she shared a painting of hers on her wall and I commented on it. Then this guy commented on it too and liked my comment. He also had this incredible talent for drawing! Self taught in fact (he always used to tell me that my facial features were so delicate — they are. I have a very feminine face. Then one day he made a drawing of me and I thought he would make me like I am . . . but he made me look totally robotic. Yes, my face looked like a pretty fembot. When I asked him about it he said “THAT’S HOW I WAS SEEING YOU WHEN I MADE THIS DRAWING”. At the time I thought it was odd but later on, it clicked on me that he saw me like that because he could not assign true feeling to my likeness). Anyway, the fact that he liked my facebook comment made me go to check his FB page (I’m sure he had already checked mine although most of my posts were for friends only, but, we had a friend in common, and that’s how we met.

        Your ex-narc was definitely hoovering you with that phone call. The “oh was it YOU who call me” tactic . . . knowing full well it was not you! When they hoover, one of the things they try to do is to keep themselves relevant in your mind. In other words, it is a way for them to show you they exist. Because one of the worst things for them is to think that you could forget them and they would cease to exist in your world. They can’t take that. I remember the first time I broke up with my ex was in October 2015. I went NC straight away. Yet, in his narc rage, every few days he would text me such nasty things and insults that I could not believe my eyes while reading this. At first, I ignored everything and did not reply. Then about a month later I decided to retaliate and said to him the very same things he had said to me. I mirrored him but in the end I added “YOU DON’T EXIST”. Oh my God Sarah, he couldn’t get over that one. That really produced narc injury in him. So much so that when we got back together (a couple of months later), he brought that up again.

        Of course my instincts were telling me not to give him another chance but i did. Then I broke up with him again last year in April (oh, in fact a year ago now!). Soon after, he started to hoover during June and July. By then he had made friends with another friend of mine and finally in August 2017 he finally approached me, love-bombed me and idealized me again after my dead silence since April. This time around I knew better and was emotionally prepared. I wanted to test him so I tentatively gave the relationship a a try, knowing that my heart hardly cared about him anymore. Luckily, I was not near him as I had been away on business during all those months. So we had no physical contact.

        I was emotionally prepared because I had already realized that history would continue to repeat itself. So, I began to distance myself from him more and more. I was getting to the point that I could care less if we communicated or not. I was tired of his narc behaviors — after our first breakup, I had started to do research on what to me was a Jekyll and Hyde type of behavior. I began to read about personality disorders and that’s how I arrived at NPD.

        I broke up with him this third and final time for good as a pre-emptive strike. I knew how his cycles worked and I was not willing to be a sitting duck waiting for the axe to fall on my head; particularly because I was no longer attracted to him and my feelings for him were about dead. I was not going to give him the satisfaction of exercising any of his nasty behaviors on me ever again. So . . . I let the axe fall on his head instead. Immediately I went NC. This was in October. But he was hoovering through my friends . . . then on Christmas Eve, he calls me. I missed the call. I had unblocked him because I have a heart . . . but then he started to send me a barrage of texts, photos, etc. every few days. I would ignore everything. Never opening any of his messages. Then came more phone calls which I would just miss (on purpose). I never called him back. The hoovering tactics continued until just a couple of weeks ago when I told him what you already know and I wished him well. I blocked him since and haven’t unblocked. I won’t unblock this time. Nothing good could ever happen if I did. I know I would be subjecting myself to further insults, or texts aimed at making me jealous (through triangulation), etc. etc. Why would I want to do that to myself? I left him for good with a clear conscience on my part. I wished him well. I am at peace with myself. I have the love of a real man who is the total opposite to the narc. Life is good. I feel unconditionally loved, truly appreciated and valued, genuinely cared for. My present relationship does not give me any anxiety. Is truly based on trust, understanding, loyalty. In other words, a solid foundation. Something I never had with my ex narc nor would I ever have with him. I do not wish my narc any ill or evil. I just do not want his toxicity in my life ever again.

        Thus, my thoughts about your narc is that YES, he is hoovering you. He wants you to know that he EXISTS. However, he is doing this to hurt you. His intention is for you not to ignore him, to acknowledge his presence (which you did when you returned his call), and what did he say to you? “OKAY”. That’s it. Nothing more. His goal was achieved: now you have him on your mind. And that Sarah is detrimental to you. Negative. No good. That is precisely their idea when they hoover. They want you to think of them . . . maybe long for them. It gives them a high while you get the low because each time you communicate with them after NC they will punish you and the negative cycle starts again for you.

        You have to work really hard on letting go for good once become fully aware that nothing, absolutely nothing good can come out of your association with this man. Your experience with him has already pointed that out to you several times over those three years. Nothing can ever change. The key elements for a good and solid relationship are not there and never will be. You cannot build a strong and solid relationship with them; and what’s worse, you will end up completely losing your “self” in your quest to achieve the impossible.

      2. Kristen Milstead

        Found it! I’m so sorry. I thought I had approved it, but it didn’t work for some reason. I’ll make extra sure next time. I have to leave the approval on because people try to leave spam for websites that are inappropriate. I hope you understand. Take care,

  9. Hi Sarah, I had replied to your last message three days ago; but my reply is still awaiting moderation from Kristen. Hopefully, it will post soon!

    1. Kristen Milstead

      Hi Renee.. I’m sorry. I am not showing here that any comments need moderation. I will check another way when am able in a couple of hours. I saw a post from you and approved it so if it isn’t showing up I will have to look into why. Again I apologize. -Kristen

  10. Good evening Renee

    Not a problem 🙂 I’ll check again when I wake up. It’s 22.02pm. I’ve just gotten into bed 😀

    Thank you for taking time to reply to me. Means a lot xx

  11. Hi Renee

    It’s 10.29am here. I’m guessing you’re asleep.

    How did you manage to turn it off? You were in that relationship for much longer.
    I know in theory it’s quite easy to say that- I woke up one morning and realized I’m so much better than this or deserved more – we all all thought this SO many times but yet found ourselves in that circle constantly.

    Also- after the hovering , now come there is always someone new in their lives ? Do they possibly think that after the first time they do this that we get jealous or actually care anymore ? In fact it shows us more what lying pieces of shits they actually are.

    And then to say- oh I’m dating this girl just for company, I don’t really like her- she isn’t you.
    Then you think- wow what the hell- you love me so much u are sticking your tongue / body in someone else ? LOL what a joke.

    Words are meaningless.

    Your new boyfriend ? How long are you with him for ? Was he around during all the hovering ? And if yes, did you tell him?
    Thing is – I don’t want to tell my bf that mr N contacts me from time to time. Like this guy has taken so much from me. Why should I bring him into every relationship I have ? Why? He doesn’t get to ruin things anymore.

    My bf will be like feeling triangulated and we all know how that feels.
    I will never do that to someone else.

    Also last week when I didn’t react to the “did you try and call me phone call”

    Two days later he told his new gf that he is going to get someone in his office to send me a letter to return my car.

    Now – she and I have mutual friends between us who are close to both of us. So he knew she was gonna tell my friend and my friend would tell me.

    I simply said- he must do what he wishes.
    Also why lie and say to her that he doesn’t talk to me so will get someone else to write this letter? He sent me flowers not even 12 days ago. Haha

    I think he wanted me to call and react. But I’m not going to.
    I know you feel it’s wrong that I still keep this car- but let me tell
    U my reasons ….

    1) it was my bday gift when I turned 30
    2) he sold my car which was nearly paid for then settled the bank leaving literally nothing left
    3) I was not gonna going to buy a car at that stage leaving my mini fully paid now
    4) the car was initially on my name, I saw the first registration, then he told me the bank changed it to his name as the car installments were off his accounts.
    5) I literally went thru hell and back with this guy- I deserve to keep it.
    I literally don’t care.

    I am not planning to keep it forever btw- I know when or if I get married or he asks for it back
    I’ll Give it back.

    He thinks that I don’t know he uses it as a reason why I always have to answer these calls etc.

    I don’t get how someone would waste time and energy to get your attention then when they do , 5 seconds later they disappear again. Makes no sense.

    He is always on my mind- I have to make an effort to remind myself that all that was fake. Isn’t giving these people our mind space still letting us not move forward ?

    His disappeared again- as usual. I’m not phased.

    Do you also fear now that with your new relationship that the guy would do the same to you?
    I have this fear all the time that my bf is using me and what if this happens again. Like I’m damaged inside but make myself act as if I don’t care or maybe
    I am just gone hard now ? I’m
    Not sure…

    Would u mind if I asked for your email address ? Maybe Kristen can help us with this if it’s ok with you?

    1. Kristen Milstead

      Of course. If you two don’t want to do it publicly, please email them to and I will make sure you each get them.

      1. Dear Kristen, thank you so much for posting my replies to Sarah! I have been travelling these past few days so I did not get to check on the posts and replies. Thank you also for the e-mail address. The address you have on file for me, is the one I hardly ever access (because I get so much spam there), so I use my other one which I can provide when I write to fairytaleshadows . . .

    2. Good night Sarah,

      I am sorry I haven’t replied sooner but I have been travelling these past few days and got home just today. I will be replying to your latest message in a few moments. I shall do that by e-mail, to the address Kristen has so graciously provided to us.

      1. Kristen Milstead

        I got it, Renee. When I receive an E-mail from Sarah and have her E-mail address as well, I will be able to send the information you have sent me to each of you.

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  15. OMG just read and listened to your synopsis on can a narcissist love!
    I asked my narc husband after 44 years of being with him and “finally getting it” if he ever loved me. His answer “yes in my own way” I said what’s that supposed to mean? You’ve cheated, threatened, lied and totally destroyed me!
    He’s now under the care of a mental health team and I’m at my wits end and he’s totally filled with guilt about the way he treated me. That’s only because he thought he was going to die and as we know narcs are immortal, they think they will live forever! The thought of dying and facing his demons has sent him into meltdown! I genuinely feel sorry for him, not being able to be himself, even though he’s been a total monster the whole time I’ve been with him. Before I even realised or read about narcs i used to say oh here we go Mr Hyde is home! Crazy making is the exact phrase to use with these people. I’m an empath, a people pleaser but now I have learnt to have boundaries and I will not take any more toxic behaviour from anyone ever!!! Thankyou Kristen, much love xxx

  16. OK. So say you understand this. And you begin to be able to separate yourself. And then he starts to tell you all those things you need to hear because he IS sincere at the time and DOES want to be able to give you the support, respect, openness, etc. that you have been begging for since the initial magic wore off? How do you make your heart understand what your mind knows-that it’s not real?

    1. Kristen Milstead

      Hi Selena: That is a very good question. I think the answer is both simple and not simple at the same time. When they do this they are exploiting our emotional connection to them. So during the time period when we are not in communication with them (a silent treatment, for example) we have to use that time to try to destroy it by doing things like remembering what love really is to them, writing down the things they have done to us and reading it, reading articles about narcissistic abuse and making ourselves difficult to contact. It may not happen the first time they come back but it can diminish our belief in what they say over time and they have less power over us. Don’t give up. I believe in you. If I can get out, you can get out. Please take care of yourself. -Kristen

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